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Author Topic:   Katana vs. Broad Sword
Marshall
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posted 03-02-2005 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marshall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yes, that is a good price. I'll take one of the $6 ones. Tak, I assume that price was intended for yourself, since you listed it first?

How soon can you ship, and what's your paypal ID?


By the way, I have a shotgun which is illegal in Canada. Therefor, I win all these "duels," even against the (has-been) Teutonic-rifle-wielding types.

[This message has been edited by Marshall (edited 03-02-2005).]

IP: 83.146.12.195

Tak
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posted 03-02-2005 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tak   Click Here to Email Tak     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Only $6? Well, who can argue with that price"

Now now buddy, you see that K at the end... the big fat K? Yeah, $6,000 folks, SIX THOUSAND! :P

IP: 216.59.164.67

Marshall
Member
posted 03-03-2005 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marshall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I will simply have to unleash my shotgun of badassness of banned-in-Canada proportions on you and take your rifle, and the little case too.

The only question is, do you want a 3" Magnum slug or some equally hefty shot, or what? I might be inclined towards shot, lest some insane, grizzly broad-sword-wielding denizen of these forms jump in and attempt to deflect my solitary slugs with his razor-sharp weapon, forcing me to utilize the semi-automatic capabilities of mine.

IP: 83.146.12.195

Inuyasha
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posted 03-03-2005 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inuyasha   Click Here to Email Inuyasha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lawyer is the deadliest weapon today has to offer. Not only are they sickeningly sadististic and vile, but they also serve as nifty maces due to their spindly frame.

I'll take on your gatling-shot-sniper-magnum with any lawyer!

IP: 64.231.164.64

Marshall
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posted 03-04-2005 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marshall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No amount of sadism of mace-like physical bearing will save your lawyer from disembowlment and subsequent decaptiation when he takes a one-two punch of 12-gauge buckshot followed by a 1 oz. slug to the face.

Then, as you flee to Canada, hoping to escape the legal range of my weapon, I will snipe you in the back at 3000 yds using my .243 winchester model 70. You will, in short, be terminated.

IP: 83.146.12.195

Karolus
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posted 03-04-2005 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Karolus   Click Here to Email Karolus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is all fine and dandy, but my question is, what is better for protection against Grizzly Bears -- Katana or Broadsword?

------------------
"Warn you, we tried. But listen, you did not. Now screwed we all will be."

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Inuyasha
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posted 03-04-2005 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inuyasha   Click Here to Email Inuyasha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I say katana because it has that aerodynamic shape that helps you drop it and run faster :P

PS: I am canadian. I have nothing to fear from gun-toting loonies other than myself. And my lawyer happens to be the incredible hulk as well, so prepare for a big, green yokozuna.

[This message has been edited by Inuyasha (edited 03-04-2005).]

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Marshall
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posted 03-04-2005 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marshall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey man, this is the NetSword forum! You can't use the incredible hulk, or lawyers. Try again!

IP: 83.146.12.195

Inuyasha
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posted 03-05-2005 07:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Inuyasha   Click Here to Email Inuyasha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fine. In that case I'll try to make an omlete, then kill with with the Inedible Hulk.

IP: 64.231.164.13

welshguy39
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posted 04-20-2005 05:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for welshguy39   Click Here to Email welshguy39     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The notion that the Japanese sword was capable of slicing through a european blade is nonsense.
The Saxons were forging pattern welded blades 300 years before the Japanese perfected their technique.
A good pattern welded sword would easily hold up against a Katana,in terms of strength if not speed.
As for the Mauser 98k,it is certainly the best looking WW2 service rifle,but give me an SMLE or later model Enfield any day.The enfield has a much smoother quicker turnbolt action and is nearly as accurate.
Anyway,you Americans had it made with the M1 Garand.

IP: 213.105.224.14

Tak
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posted 04-20-2005 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tak   Click Here to Email Tak     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"The notion that the Japanese sword was capable of slicing through a european blade is nonsense. The Saxons were forging pattern welded blades 300 years before the Japanese perfected their technique."

I'd expect that the majority of educated posts in this forum would not give you that impression. As for pattern techniques, it is not something unusual in the era, but how meticulously that progress is achieved. This is what we mean by superiority.

"As for the Mauser 98k,it is certainly the best looking WW2 service rifle,but give me an SMLE or later model Enfield any day.The enfield has a much smoother quicker turnbolt action and is nearly as accurate."

Yeah, what else would I expect from a Brit?

IP: 216.59.164.67

welshguy39
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posted 04-22-2005 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for welshguy39   Click Here to Email welshguy39     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree that the Japanese approached their sword making with greater reverence and that the standard and quality of the blades was generally much better.
I suppose the quality of European swords was less uniform,either very good for the wealthy,or less so for those in their service.
Swords in general during and prior to the middle ages would have been prohibitively expensive for most people,the quarterstaff and longbow(in Britain)being more widespread.

Come on admit it!the Enfield is better than the 98k.Quicker action,(have you heard of the "mad minute"in WW1),ten rounds opposed to five,magazine opposed to stripper clip,need I go on?
But you are right,being a Brit Iam biased.


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GoneDumbSEED
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posted 04-22-2005 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoneDumbSEED   Click Here to Email GoneDumbSEED     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Come on admit it!the Enfield is better than the 98k.Quicker action,(have you heard of the "mad minute"in WW1),ten rounds opposed to five,magazine opposed to stripper clip,need I go on?
But you are right,being a Brit Iam biased."

Actually, I have quite a few Bolt-Actions in my collection, including a 1903 Springfield (itself being a Mauser replica) as well as, *drum roll* an Enfield. Of course, my most prized collections are the series of Mausers I have...

Based on my experience with the Enfs, I am not sure if I like handling it more so than my Mauser. First and foremost is the ammunition, 2 catridges, while being fine and dandy to contain more ammo, it made the rifle somewhat unbalanced in terms of weight.

Then comes in the firing procedure, my ammo jams ever so often in the chamber, which requires me to manually pull the spare ammo out. Maybe there is something wrong with the catridges.

And lastly is what you claimed to be the "mad minute", I assume its about the firing rate or ammo capaicty of Enfield vs. the Mauser. But here is the problem, there are only superficial difference between the firing rate of an Enfield and a Mauser, and unless you can spray your fire with Bolts llike a machinegun, there is really no point of keeping some 10 ammo inside a box. After all, in World War I, close-quarter spray weapons for the Germans was the Maschinepistole or the Sub-Machine gun, and in WW2, it was the MP-38/41. Likewise, the Brits would be inspired to create the Sten later.

*GDS - Formally known as Tak*

[This message has been edited by GoneDumbSEED (edited 04-22-2005).]

IP: 216.59.164.67

welshguy39
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posted 04-23-2005 07:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for welshguy39   Click Here to Email welshguy39     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nobody knows better than me cos I've used em all on'call of duty,finest hour.There's fat chance of using them for real in this country!

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Cheimison
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posted 04-26-2005 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cheimison   Click Here to Email Cheimison     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a Swiss Mauser 98 in great condition, but it is a recent manufacture. That is a mean rifle. I like how soft targets just explode.

Just the same I'd take my AK47 any day.

[This message has been edited by Cheimison (edited 04-26-2005).]

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Lion of Narnia
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posted 05-20-2005 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lion of Narnia   Click Here to Email Lion of Narnia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Old adage about the 20th century bolt-action battle rifles:

"The Americans built rifles for target-shooting.

The Germans built rifles for hunting.

The British built a rifle for war."

[This message has been edited by Lion of Narnia (edited 05-20-2005).]

IP: 65.241.26.196

GoneDumbSEED
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posted 05-20-2005 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoneDumbSEED   Click Here to Email GoneDumbSEED     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lion, that was a very funny post...

- Tak (The man who gave his rifle a woman's name)

[This message has been edited by GoneDumbSEED (edited 05-20-2005).]

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Lion of Narnia
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posted 05-20-2005 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lion of Narnia   Click Here to Email Lion of Narnia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Funny, the European police-reluctance to shoot center of mass, yet shoot to stop a fleeing suspect goes back quite aways. I once knew a former Czechloslavkian policeman who stopped a fleeing thief by a leg shot with a 7.62 (I think) pocket pistol. This was circa 1938.

Colonel Jeff Cooper notes that this attitude is very prevalent among europeans today. "We shoot them in the legs and they just sit down and cry" is what the Colonel quoted. It may very well be that the USA, being a nation of immigrants, a welter of sometimes conflicting peoples is just plain more ornery that the general class of even euro-criminals. Europeans, not realizing we have a large portion of "take it to the limit" types among us consider our "shoot center of mass/shoot to stop" to be brutal and barbaric. The reality is, its often the only thing that works.

However, this shooting to legs, to disable is just plain bad tactics. Reletivly small, moving, VERY hard to hit. Lets see, typical conditions include HARD running surfaces, and common use of submachine guns or high capacity 9mm sidearms that promote "spray and pray" shooting. Sounds like a LOT of high velocity rounds going down range, ricocheting off sidewalks and such. Can we say "bystander casualities"???

IP: 65.241.26.196

Artorius
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posted 06-03-2005 05:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Artorius   Click Here to Email Artorius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting how this topic has changed/evolved over the past while- in any event , still interesting.
welshguy39: Right on with your earlier post- The Saxons, as your example were indeed making pattern welded blades at least 300 years( actually a fair bit longer) before the Japanese made famous their forging techniques/ or familiar sword Design for that matter. The blade strength and speed of manouver were certainly up to par (as were many later forms, of course non-pattern welded if we were to get far broader in topic); And edge holding capability- and in fact edges themselves as were designed into the the geometry and applied in the finish- were extrememly sharp ( at least as much as any Japanese sword).

"I'd expect that the majority of educated posts in this forum would not give you that impression. As for pattern techniques, it is not something unusual in the era, but how meticulously that progress is achieved. This is what we mean by superiority."

Im not sure exactly what is meant by this, it almost seems as if a degree of inferiority is implied in those who are of that opinion..? But perhaps that could be clarified.

Excellent and well mentioned thoughts, non theless Welshguy39.- If I may say , dont be so easy to sway your opinion.
Also to Vince: who posted a while back- Amen brother! The unfair and simply untrue portrayal of European sorts has as of recent been changing for the better, with informed scholars and practioners, etc. such as many of US on here are helping to achieve. And true- no martial art is truly superior to another.
In favor of the Katana- They do have several unique attributes: 1.certain broader spectrum parry capabilities due to the curvature, 2. A different and often greater degree of attack/defense angles due to the hand-and-a half hilt and subsequent positiong of the arms and relative movments (note: The same however, of course applies to European and other culture's Hand/half forms) Im assuming thought we are in comparison with single hand broadsword forms though. 3. Drawcuts are often more efficient with blades of curved form.
In favor of the broadsword: 1. straight blade- better bind and lock potential. 2. Two cutting edges(most types). 3. possibly better thrust potential -again depending on specific blade type. note: some Katanas were made with Acutley pointed tips. 4. A single hand grip can offer certain techniques not possible with other namely multi handed and up- grip types. two main kinds- a. ablity to get in/out zones with more stealth. b. free off hand. (on a few of these; I have touched on a few unique and advance concepts- but maybe more on that another time).
Do pardon me if i went a little long on the last part , or repeated some things already stated.
To sum up and answer the original question:
I say if on the offensive then Katana, if on the defensive then the Broadsword ( I ended up feeling it best to answer in this fashion) ..Ahha then in truth the dark cloaked figure reaches for the folds and draws a strange flashlight-like object ( here we go
!: Dun Dun duna da dun dun Dunna da Dunn..)- Katana man and Broad sword man pause for a moment to notice serenely humming illuminated blade just 'passed' through them.. then they and their swords fall to pieces, and a tad crispy in the middle to boot. mm um.
Ah, love doing that- Hey weve all heard the phrase bring it, - well this time theres nothing to be brought , it been signed ,delivered, only thing left to do is open the envelope and read 'say hello to the Force for me' - this after kisses their non-Jedi Buns goodbye of course...

As for the Enfield vs. the Mauser, etc. - Ive been out of the gun circle for awhile now,in broad scope, though i should probably start getting back there.Few things beat a Dragenoff- in its class anyway (spelling?- i know- forgive me, its late here.) Its not really in the upper leagues for distance (prob.past 200yds.) but Mid range ,auto, and for accuracy- its in the upper leagues anywhere. A mighty fine weapon. Deserving its prestigious Rep. if memory serves its 7.62x?- cant recall at the moment- someone could fill me in there.
But dream land now awaits.
take care all. till next time. P.

IP: 24.125.176.189

GoneDumbSEED
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posted 06-03-2005 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoneDumbSEED   Click Here to Email GoneDumbSEED     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Arty, ya have a thing for muddling people's intentions

"Im not sure exactly what is meant by this, it almost seems as if a degree of inferiority is implied in those who are of that opinion..? But perhaps that could be clarified."

Welshguy seem to understood it just fine.
He said, and I paraphrase "Saxon blades are not inferior to Japanese ones", in which I reply "hopefully, inferiority is not what we've given as an impression on this forum".

"Also to Vince: who posted a while back- Amen brother! The unfair and simply untrue portrayal of European sorts has as of recent been changing for the better, with informed scholars and practioners, etc. such as many of US on here are helping to achieve. And true- no martial art is truly superior to another. In favor of the Katana... etc."

The problem with this post in the first place was that it made compairson between the wrong weapons. Katana vs. a Broadsword? Why?

The Katana was not a battlefield weapon, it was circumsized to accomodate the will of the Shogun after the 1600s, when battles have disappeared. The correct weapon in this configuration suitable to perform a direct compairson is a Tachi, Odachi or one of their variants.

"Right on with your earlier post- The Saxons, as your example were indeed making pattern welded blades at least 300 years( actually a fair bit longer) before the Japanese made famous their forging techniques/ or familiar sword Design for that matter."

I see very little point instigated by this post. Whatever be the case it doesn't matter, given the fact that the most recognizable weaponry by a larger part of the world of the middle ages (12 - 15 centuries) was the lance and, (uh oh, here I go again) the Mongolian recurve bow.

If this argument is made valid at all, should we also give the Chinese a million browny points for their technical advancements?

"Few things beat a Dragenoff- in its class anyway"

The Dragnov is a semi-automatic, it would not have been comparable with both the Mauser or Enfield given the latter's bolt-action mechanism.

Superior weaponry or not, at this point, I am just using my commie-sacrified, magically enchanted Mauser pretty much as a comic relif

- Tak

[This message has been edited by GoneDumbSEED (edited 06-03-2005).]

IP: 216.59.164.67

Ogur
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posted 06-14-2005 07:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ogur   Click Here to Email Ogur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sword against grizzly.... I'll pass. Hmmm.. Can I take my still in design Saxon spear?(55 cm leaf blade, babywings about 3 to 5 cm from the end of the socket)

Otherwise I'll opt for the "scream like a girl and run" manoeuvre.

------------------
Famous last words:"Hey! Button!"

IP: 145.24.135.21

welshguy39
Member
posted 06-18-2005 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for welshguy39   Click Here to Email welshguy39     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think a fast motorcycle and a change of underwear is best against a Grizzly.
You guys have some really dangerous wildlife over there.The worst we get is a bothered Badger,or maybe a sullen Seagull.
Boring though.

WG39

IP: 213.105.224.14

GCraig1
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posted 06-19-2005 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GCraig1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
2 things: The Lee-Enfield was invented by an American (you're welcome!)

And:
"I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun YOU!"

IP: 207.69.140.36

Ogur
Member
posted 06-19-2005 06:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ogur   Click Here to Email Ogur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The most dangerous beast I've encountered here in the Netherlands would have to be a female wild boar with piglets to protect. I unfortunely got in between the two. Luckily I was on a bike. Never thought I could cycle so fast...

------------------
Famous last words:"Hey! Button!"

IP: 62.45.66.46

welshguy39
Member
posted 06-19-2005 06:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for welshguy39   Click Here to Email welshguy39     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was aware that the Enfield was originally invented by an American.We adopted it,improved it and in my opinion it was the finest bolt action service rifle in history.
(Awaiting reply from Tak).
I still would have preferred an M1 Garand in a combat situation though.

WG39

IP: 213.105.224.14


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