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Author Topic:   Lance or Post organization?
mumfordlibrarian
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posted 12-17-2002 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mumfordlibrarian   Click Here to Email mumfordlibrarian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a unit of organization in armies of the Middle Ages and Renaissance called a Lance, or possible a Post. In general it seemed to be composed of a combination of a Knight (commander) a Man-at-Arms or Squire, a Mounted archer, and or a Page. I have the impression that they were all fighting men of adult age rather then youths in training.

When combined into larger units, were like types of soldier brigaded together, or did each Lance or Post fight together as a unit with in a larger unit. I also have the impression that especially in mercenary units the commander could be a Man-at-Arms without having Knightly rank and the mounted archer could also be a crossbowman.

Paul T. Weaver.
Mumfordlibrarian

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Marshal
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posted 12-17-2002 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marshal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They were largely administrative units. On the field the archers generally fought with the other archers, the MAA with the other MAA, and so forth. It was not like, say, the modern squad which stayed together in combat.

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Joram van Essen
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posted 01-18-2003 05:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joram van Essen   Click Here to Email Joram van Essen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Depends exactly on where in Europe and when.
My main field of interest is Burgundy from 1460 to 1480.
Here the compossition of the lance was changed by charles the bold in a series of "ordonnance" that he wrote. The first surviving one we know of is in 1468. However the most important ones are of 1471, 72 and the last survivng one is the Ordonnance of St. Maximin de Tréves: October 1473.
Here he re-organises the Lance as follows, each lance shall be 9 fighting men composed of
1 man-at-arms (Hommes d'armes)
1 Coustilier
1 Valet
3 Archers
1 Crossbowman
1 Pikeman
1 Handgunner

By this time the distinction of the ranks of knighthood (chevalier bannerets/ chevelair bacheliers and écuyers) had already been stopped in Charles the Bolds 1471 Ordonnance, with them all being refered to now as hommes d'armes.

The lance was predominatly an administration unit, with the various types of troops being organised into larger units, depending on the battle.

Hope this helps

[This message has been edited by Joram van Essen (edited 01-18-2003).]

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John Jordan
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posted 02-05-2003 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Jordan   Click Here to Email John Jordan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's what I have on the subject:

Barbuta- Term used in Italy in the 13th Century. Refers to the barbute helmet worn by the many German mercenaries. A unit composed of a warrior and his servant (apparently nominally a non-combatant)

Lancia- The lance. In Germany gleve, in France lance. Apparently refers to the actual lance used by a horseman in a charge. It is common, in the SCA, to estimate forces by counting the number of spear points in the air. A unit organized around a horseman (the one carrying the lance) and his retainers. Size varies from time to place. English lances in later 14th century Italy had two combatants and a servant. As noted in another response, the well-defined Burgundian lances were much larger and had a greater variety of arms represented.

Capo Lancia- Italian term describing the leader of a lance. Capo means 'head, chief' from the Latin caput.

Caporale- Italian term describing the leader of a unit. Etymology of the word is capo + rale. Capo is the leader. Rale is problematic. It is related to the term 'rally' and appears to mean a group (with connotations of a mounted group). I have not found a clear indication of exactly what size unit a caporale commanded.

Posta- Italian term describing a grouping of several lances. This appears to be yet another horse-related term with the archaic meaning of 'an assigned stable space'. I conjecture then that a posta was literally a group of men who stabled their horses together while on campaign. Probably also a maneuver unit. It might also mean 'position' as in an assigned location.

Bandiera- Italian term for banner. Literally a group of poste identified by a single banner. In battle they would be expected to rally round their banner.

Compagnia- Italian term for company. The term company literally means 'those that share bread'. Companies could be made up of routes (with the concept being that a company might split up to travel along several routes to a destination to make foraging easier), bandiere, or even other companies. This was particularly true of the Great Companies (at least one of which had more than 50 leaders who had to sign a contract) from 1360 onward.

Conroi- French term literally meaning 'with a leader'. A group of men, apparently of almost any size, led by a single leader. The connotation appears to be the sworn retainers of a single lord. It is unclear if multiple conrois can form a single conroi. The term is used to describe feudal forces rather than mercenary forces.

Route- French term used to refer to a group of soldiers travelling together. Literally 'those who travel the roads'. Generally used in conjunction with mercernary forces rather than feudal forces.

Battle- A wave of troops. Generally composed of many conrois. French term.

Marshal- English term derived from French term Mareschal akin to Old High German Marahscalc. Marah = horse + scalc = servant -> One who serves on horseback. The usage I have seen for this indicates a military retainer given a specific task to perform (i.e. the Marshal of the Camp).

Constable- French and English term. Derived from the latin Comes Stabili. Literally the person in charge of the stables. This appears to be a military subordinate who commands a mounted force. There are overtones of logistical responsibility as well.

Captain- French (Capitain) and English (Capitane) term. From the latin Capitaneus and the root caput. The commander of a body of troops. The connotation seems to include the idea that the body of troops is an independent/discrete command rather than a body of troops integrated into another maneuver command.

Sergeant- Also Serjent, Serjant, and other spellings. Found in English and French descriptions. A non-noble military retainer settled on a parcel of land. From the latin serviente, 'a servant'. (NOTE: Modern sergeants do not like to be reminded of this for some reason.)

Lieutenant- From the Latin Locotenums, literally 'place holder'. One who stands in the place of, and acts with the authority of, another.

The important thing to understand is that rank in the Middle Ages does not equate to rank in the current era. Rank in the Middle Ages is descriptive of a job position. A captain, for instance, does not necessarily outrank a lieutenant. The King's Lieutenant might be sent to assume command of a campaign while a Baron's Lieutenant might simply take care of all the details of actually running a small military command. The Constable of France is very different from the constable of a compagnia. Some of the terms are interchangeable depending on circumstances and points of view. A bandiera or even a compagnia might be described as a route by another observer (and might acutally be a route if they are travelling at the time).

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Felix
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posted 02-08-2003 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Felix   Click Here to Email Felix     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My guess is that the lance was an administrative unit, and was an attempt to influence the makeup of the army being assembled. By specifying how many light horsemen, archers, and heavy foot were to be provided for each man-at-arms, a ratio of the various troop types could be achieved. Of course, this worked better in theory than practice. The various troop types were then clearly reorganized into units of each type of soldier.

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Mikael
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posted 03-17-2003 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikael     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't add much concerning the French lance, other than to affirm it was indeed administrative. However, I read somewhere that the Burgundian lance was used for tactical purposes as well? Any confirmation or corrections?

Now, the Italian lance, either 5 or 6 man, was more than administrative. It didn't contain archers or other types of troops; rather, it contained support units to service the leader, though it did include a sergeant as well. I believe this was due to the influence of Bracceschi school, which emphasized tightly controlled bursts of all-out attacks with no rest in between. It was said to have been very exhausting to both the men and the mounts. I could be wrong about the correlation though. However, I'm pretty certain the Italian lance contained no extraneous troops like the Franco-Burgundian model.

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