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 A&A Katzbalger
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| Author | Topic: A&A Katzbalger |
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Abb314 Member |
posted 11-19-2002 04:01 PM
   
To all of you shortie fans, A&A has posted new pictures of their katzbalger.   ------------------ IP: 12.224.175.103 |
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michaelkaygee Member |
posted 11-20-2002 08:35 AM
Could anyone describe the use of these swords? I know they were used as sidearms by the Landsknechts, but were there any set drills? They are sometimes described as a kind of Roman-style short sword, but they don’t look like the gladius hispaniensis or the spatha. Haven’t I seen a couple with flat “points”? There is a wealth of information on costume and campaigns, but I’d like to know about minor tactics. IP: 193.41.92.192 |
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Peter Administrator |
posted 11-22-2002 05:32 PM
Good point: There was another thread running (after a busy month I can't recall whether here, SFI or wherever) wondering why, if the Katz was the "standard" (let's say, most common) short sidearm of the Landesknechts, it doesn't appear in any Fechtbuche. Messers, yes; dussacks, yes; rondel daggers, yes - even though Meyer's trunk-hosed chaps are shown using these (with safety ball-tips, too!) I've always associated the rondel with the medieval period rather than the Renaissance. So a good question indeed: how was the Katz used, how was that use taught, and why, among arquebus, pike and doppelhander drills (all contemporary weapons) don't we have any pictorial evidence of training? (Now of course someone like Mac or Sikandur will post lots of pics and URLs and make me look silly. ------------------ IP: 159.134.255.171 |
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Thomas McDonald Member |
posted 12-11-2002 08:54 AM
Hi Peter Sounds like a job for Sikandur .... *g* I was skimming thru 'Arms & Armour ; The Cleveland Museum Of Art' and came upon this pic .... and wondered if the sword the knight is holding is a Katzbalger ? The hilt sure looks like one, but the blade seems too long ! Mac First a closeup of the hilt ... Than the painting ..... ------------------ [This message has been edited by Thomas McDonald (edited 12-11-2002).] IP: 24.147.29.165 |
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Triton2 Member |
posted 12-11-2002 09:06 AM
That's an interesting question. That same picture appears in Swords and Hilt Weapons and I wondered at the time. Additionally there is a sword in the Royal Ontario Museum that looks just like the sword in the picture. Basically it's a longsword with what we think of as a Katzbalger style hilt. ------------------ IP: 65.208.22.25 |
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Marshal Member |
posted 12-11-2002 06:05 PM
But hey, technically we don't know that the sword depicted has a long blade, only that it's in a long scabbard! The blade could still be traditional length...  IP: 65.36.95.155 |
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Craig Member |
posted 12-11-2002 08:53 PM
I would suggest that a Katzbalger is not defined by size but style of hilt and a blade of fairly parallel proportions. There are many examples of them being two handed in size in art and a version like the one depicted in the painting would be down right average. They were an all purpose design in my opinion. Craig IP: 24.163.194.121 |
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Thomas McDonald Member |
posted 12-12-2002 09:18 AM
Hi Craig Interesting .... I was not aware that the Katz hilt featured longer blades ! No surviving specimens , right ? Mac ------------------ IP: 24.147.29.165 |
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kfd New Member |
posted 12-14-2002 09:17 PM
Regarding Katzbalger blade length. The thought of a short blade in a long scabbard seems a bit obscure. I've collected early swords for 25 years or so and have found there are very few rules. Consider the strange thingings done to modern guns to "customize" individual pieces. If a man wanted a long blade he had the local swordsmith mount one for him. IP: 64.154.157.224 |
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Marshal Member |
posted 12-16-2002 06:13 PM
quote: Mostly because it was a joke... ( Although, Bugs Bunny always seemed to be pulling a sabre with a 3" long blade out of a 3' long scabbard... IP: 65.36.95.155 |
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Atrim Moderator |
posted 12-17-2002 01:11 PM
I'm aware of one surviving Katzbalger that had a 30 inch blade. Where I saw reference to it, I don't recall, but it was about 3, 4 years ago..... IP: 165.121.34.171 |
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brehon Member |
posted 12-17-2002 09:47 PM
Patrick Barta has a reproduction hand and a half sword with a katzbalger-ish hilt on his site. Looks to be a 34-40" blade range. He says it is based on a piece in the Dresden museum. IP: 12.84.226.84 |
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Triton2 Member |
posted 12-17-2002 10:54 PM
Here's a picture of one that in the Royal Ontario museum. Sadly I could not take the whole blade because of the way the display cases were set up. Still this should show you that it is no shortsword. ------------------ IP: 165.121.234.188 |
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Thomas McDonald Member |
posted 12-18-2002 05:47 AM
Nice job Russ..., er.. Triton2 How long do you figure the blade was ? Thanks, Mac ------------------ IP: 24.147.29.165 |
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Triton2 Member |
posted 12-18-2002 11:04 PM
Mac I think it was something around 40 inches overall length. ------------------ IP: 199.174.149.115 |
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Abb314 Member |
posted 12-19-2002 10:42 AM
Here's a katzbalger with a 30" blade. http://www.antiqueswords.com/ew167.htm And another two: http://www.claudiospage.com/katzbalg.htm On the far right is a katzbalger with a longer blade and a point. http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment.php?s=0afca7525af8c03c3c880b940b24b3d7&postid=72346 ------------------ IP: 12.224.175.103 |
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Thomas McDonald Member |
posted 12-19-2002 12:01 PM
Hi Abb314 Guess they did indeed feature blades of varing lengths! Thank you for the links , much appreciated ! Mac
------------------ IP: 24.147.29.165 |
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